Instagram was the last place I expected to have a deep political conversation. But then, a Ukrainian guy I follow on there posted this picture, and all hell broke loose in the comments. I ended up going back and forth with someone who turned out to be not only pro-Putin, but outright “anti-Western Society”. It was enlightening, if surreal, and if nothing else it makes me grateful that these international social media allow us to have conversations with people of all types, from all backgrounds.
It’s a fascinating, or maybe frightening, insight into a view that is not only 180 degrees from my own, but 180 degrees from any side that we really hear here in the U.S. We are so polarized within our own politics here, it is easy to think that we hear “every side” of every story. We don’t. There are opinions and perspectives we most certainly do not get, even when looking at the full range of American debate.
So here is a fragment of the conversation, just for you to think about. What do you think? Does he have a point? Is he just a product of pro-Russian propaganda? Or is it more complicated than that? I’ll let you decide.
gtsinstagram Personally I think it is OBVIOUS it was Russian terrorists who did this, after reading all of the sources. Plus, this is so clearly something Putin would do. If he wasn’t such a violent asshole in the past, people would be more reserved about making judgment now.
amrinderrai Violent asshole? Who’s the one instigating a civil war in neighbouring Ukraine so they can have military bases right up by Putin? Who has funded a coup to overthrow the democratically legitimate government of Ukraine? You’re right the US doesn’t know what to do.. As it looks econonically weak and is losing supremacy… As Putin continues to defy western imperialism with huge non-USD denominated trade deals and looking to set up IMF rival via BRICS. The US doesn’t know what to do in such a situation… So it does what it has done best: false flags & wars.
gtsinstagram Putin should not be trying to annex Ukraine. Hell, Putin should not have been in Georgia. This is a pattern of aggression and it is consistent with Putin’s stated desire to rebuild the Soviet Union. Let’s be clear: Ukraine has it’s own political difficulties.. BUT THEY ARE THEIR OWN, and should have been solved by Ukraine without Putin using it as an excuse to move in and gain power. Russians are (AGAIN!!!!!!) acting as usurpers.
amrinderrai Erm are you completely ignoring the fact that the USA had the legitimate government toppled? Now they are dissatisfied with Kiev’s control over Ukraine. We all know about USA’s aggression pattern surely: Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan… Just to name a few.
amrinderrai Putin only took back Crimea, as the Russians there asked for help. They would have suffered from genocide… Take a look at Odessa.
gtsinstagram So just to make sure I understand: is it your allegation that Ukrainians themselves had no role to play in resisting pro-Russian pressures? Ukrainians didn’t particularly want to become more aligned with the West, but it instead was just the manipulation of the US that made it seem that way? Is this what you are saying?
amrinderrai Some may not have been happy and were used as scapegoats… The coup was funded. Do your research… Kiev’s current fascist government stirred up a lot via rooftop snipers etc. We have seen this too many times, the CIA does these things well… Check out Confessions of an Economic hitman, if you really have no clue of what I’m proposing.
gtsinstagram I know exactly what you are talking about, thanks. But any explanation that places all the blame on the US is just as blind as any explanation that places all the blame on Putin. Not to mention being insulting to Ukrainians: as if they have no opinion or views of their own!
gtsinstagram My perception, from family and friends, is that Western Ukraine has always seen Russians as usurpers and resented them, and that they strongly want Ukraine to align more with the West. To characterize this as a small number of discontents seems dishonest to me.
amrinderrai All Russia is doing is encouraging Trade ambits sanctions in non-USD. Putin has the balls to step up to western imperialism.. But I’d expect the likes of China to step in if things get out of hand. Not really… It started off with very few Ukrainians in Kiev and escalated, these things are relatively easy for the CIA to accomplish. Manipulated people with propaganda is easy, at the end of the day… We are all ignorant by design. I wasn’t insulting anyway – you have the impression the whole of Ukraine suddenly one day decided to violently topple their democratically elected government.
amrinderrai And how many of them wanted the violent coup? I don’t deny what you’re saying… But the USA played on that. It’s sophisticated propaganda. And what is your views on the massacres happening in Eastern Ukraine… Did your family want that too? Loads of people are discontent with their government but a civilised society doesn’t just run itself into the abyss like that one day.. Randomly. Anyway Ukrainians who do want to be westernised will regret it I assure you… When they realise they are slaves to the EU, fixing up European banks’ balance sheets.
gtsinstagram Well…. If you say “Ukrainians who do want to be westernized will regret it” then I think you and I will not agree on much. 🙂 it has been a pleasure talking to you, though! Thanks for the discussion.
amrinderrai No problem, that is just my opinion on the IMF etc, it has indebted + destroyed countries. I’ll just say… stay skeptical, not long ago I was very pro-USA & capitalist/ consumerist… But I’ve learnt that there are certain ways the US has gotten by and the west does not look good financially today. Anyway nice discussing with you too.